ARBEN AHMETAJ SECOND INTERVIEW FOR 'ÇIM PEKA LIVE' ON SYRI TV - JULY 27, 2024

Good evening! After exactly six months, in a kind of warning, I return to interview the former Deputy Prime Minister, former high-ranking official of the SP government, and former number two under Edi Rama, Arben Ahmetaj.

Arben Ahmetaj: Good evening!

Peka: I'm glad to see you again. First question for you: Are you in the same conditions? By "same conditions," I mean personally, emotionally, and legally, considering you have been under attack.

Ahmetaj: From a personal point of view, no day is like the one before, because my days and those of my family are very difficult. Of course, the Albanian citizens are not interested in the details of my day or my family's, but in all dimensions, these are difficult days, no matter what aspect you want to ask about. In terms of determination, after the recent SPAK attacks ordered by the Prime Minister...

Peka: We will talk at length here, but these are difficult days. Rama's media, specifically Karlo Bolino's Report TV, took care to photograph a flat in Switzerland, where, in the eyes of the public, it seems you don't live hard days but live in luxury. How does Arben Ahmetaj live?

Ahmetaj: (Laughs) Once again, I will address the media, Edi Rama's personal media, later in this interview. Regarding my everyday situation, you are welcome to visit my house to understand the so-called luxury. We live in a house under normal conditions, providing a space where my 83-year-old mother or Eriola's slightly younger parents can visit and stay. This is the reality of the pseudo-luxury they talk about. We will discuss later why they focus on this so much. It is all due to orders and diligence.

Peka: In your opinion, was that published photo meant to create the perception that the charges against you are valid and that you are living in luxury? Or was it to show your location, which you took as a kind of threat?

Ahmetaj: It was a direct threat, and after that publication, I experienced two incidents. One involved three Albanian citizens, one of whom resides in Switzerland. I know them, but I won’t disclose their names to the public; if needed, I can provide their names for verification. They came and took photos at the door of my residence, and one of my men randomly recorded what they said. I have shared this incident with the authorities.

In another episode, while coming down from a public place in an elevator, a fellow citizen expressed hostility and abuse towards me. The same person confronted me again in the café where I have my morning coffee. I photographed him and reported it to the authorities. I take these threats seriously, including a provocation directed at my young daughter, Kelis, in Tirana. I am very alert and have reported all six names of the potential attackers to the relevant services.

Peka: You are on alert. Do you feel withdrawn, or are you equally motivated to continue pursuing your rights to the end? I ask this because this is your third interview, the second with me, and another interview somewhat taken by Report’s colleagues at RAI3, which has caused quite a bit of confusion in Tirana, especially the second interview.

Ahmetaj: Regarding my determination and motivation to continue the battle for my rights and to take legal action against all those who have illegally crossed the threshold of my home, there is no going back. This is not up for discussion. Anyone who has illegally stepped over the threshold of my home will face legal consequences to the fullest extent. This is not negotiable. I am convinced of my innocence. I know what burdens I must bear, but not these fabricated ones by Altin Dumani, orchestrated by Edi Rama. And as Edi Rama says, they complain about the SP. I have no issue with the SP; I hold the SP in the regard it deserves. With the SP, that great entity, I grew up.

Peka: To be honest, you have nothing to do with the SP; I do.

Ahmetaj: Don't speak in this way for the SP...

Peka: Even Kadri Hazbiu said, "My party condemns me..." I have it here. What do you have here? We have grown up, but you have grown up in a criminal organization if your accusations are untrue and dictated by Edi Rama.

Ahmetaj: You have to differentiate between the SP and Edi Rama...

Peka: Do you think there is a difference today?

Ahmetaj: I would ask you, for the sake of conveying the message and respecting the work and effort you put into this interview, not to interrupt me because I want to complete my thought. Edi Rama comes out and says, "These are wanted by justice and complain about the SP." I'm not complaining about the SP; I just have a request for my former colleagues. How is it possible that no one from their side, from the Minister of Justice, from whomever you want, lawyer or non-lawyer, Fatmir Xhafaj, Klotilda Bushka, Ben Pëllumbi, men and women, did not read the file that Altin Dumani brought there? Edi Rama referred to a voluminous file, but if you read the file, which he has not read, you would see the truth. If Ulsi Manja, Xhafaj, or Bushka had read it, they would have said, "Look at this." Damian Gjiknuri or any lawyer would have said, "Look at what these people are doing. See what standard they create, see what they bring."

After my immunity was removed, Prime Minister Edi Rama expressed approval, saying, "Well done to the scoundrel." One of my former colleagues said, "What did we do, what a precedent we created." "Well done to the scoundrel," they said. I was labeled as the scoundrel, and then someone paid by the incinerators called me low, etc. I told you, Çim Peka, after the interview, their fight with assumptions and tricks is about to reach a new level. It did. My ex-wife and my current wife were accused of money laundering, even though my wife is a highly respected lawyer in Albania. She conducted research and found that this situation, where the whole family is accused, is unprecedented in the democratic world. Let's assume for a moment that all these accusations were true, what did they sign? I did them; they did them. Where have you seen people being accused without a signature, without a seal, without being part of public institutions? Why did they do it? It is an open threat. They want to destroy my family. Altin Dumani aims to destroy my family, which suggests he has a personal vendetta. Is it personal with me? Why do you hold a personal grudge? We haven't even played football together, so I could have broken your leg, or gone swimming together, so I could have drowned you. What reason do you have for making it personal? It is against the basic code of any institution, not just of justice but any institution, to hold a personal grudge. Why are you personal with me? You said I did a favor to the Prime Minister. What business is it of yours what I do with the Prime Minister?

Peka: Has Altin Dumani expressed that he has a personal bief with you since you scolded the Prime Minister?

Ahmetaj: It has been said. I don't know what he means by thish. He has stated that he has a personal issue. Who has a personal issue?

Peka: Did you know him before?

Ahmetaj: Zero. Whether he takes it as a citizen, as someone wanted by Rama's justice, as a fugitive, or however they portray him, my suggestion is that a representative of justice cannot have emotions, neither negative nor positive, towards a citizen, an investigated person, an accused person, or an arrested person. It is not allowed. If he keeps it personal with me, I suggest he should not. If he wants to, he can, but I suggest against it because it is a fundamental violation of the integrity of the work of any party within the justice system. Why do I say "parties"? SPAK is not justice. The courts should be justice.

Peka: Since we have an insert here, it is not the justice of SPAK but should be the courts. You say these things, while the head of SPAK says that the courts almost do what we decide. The leader of SPAK is quite clear.

Ahmetaj: In the first interview, I told you and the Albanian citizens that the justice system was overturned. Practically, Edi Rama, through SPAK, controls the machinery and targets people he doesn't like, his enemies, temporary or permanent, or whoever he needs to clear the way for. We discussed this the first time, the whole process towards me. If you notice what Altin Dumani said, it is terribly interesting. Why is it interesting? There are two things together plus the institutional consequences. Do you know what he was talking about when he said the courts are about to decide? He was referring to getting innocence. So, he is not aiming for justice but 100% punishment; he is aiming for statistics. This is a violation of the integrity of SPAK and the justice reform. The justice reform's aspiration was not to create statistics. It is not reform in justice to brag about my name; we banned the former deputy prime minister for the incinerators. Can you show Edi Rama, Ulsi Manja, all those who control you, and the Albanian citizens a letter indicating which incinerator you accuse me of? For Elbasan? No, I did not participate in the procedure. For Fier? No, I did not participate in the procedure. For Tirana? No, I did not participate in the procedure. You fabricated a wealth investigation, turning me into a target and destroying justice reform. Tell me, dear citizens, economists, lawyers, jurists, judges, ministers, prime ministers, president, tell me if in a normal democratic country, the chief prosecutor would say what he said: "The courts will soon decide as we ask them to." What would happen to that? I have a lawyer here who used to be the head of economic crime at the federal prosecutor's office. He will come to Albania and assist my lawyers in Tirana. He also made an observation of the file. He told me two things: it's very strange what happens to this file. I don't know if it is a political intention or something else, but this does not take into account the foundation of the element of corruption, which is an international classification. First, it is therefore missing in this file. Second, how can the prosecutor speak like this? He would have been fired that second if he hadn't resigned. Now, apart from the media directed by Edi Rama, and it will be in your mouth, one by one they did not mention it. How is it possible that KLP did not make any comment? They are the authority that had to control based on the structure that has made reforms in justice, to control these, those who cannot be investigated. KLGJ made no comment, Chamber of Advocates made no comment. Tell me in what normal country a man who is the chief prosecutor can come out and say, "The courts will soon decide as we ask them to." This is the collapse of a system. The truth spoke to him subliminally, and I know many facts, and we have a meeting together again on how pressure has been exerted on prosecutors and judges to reach the statistics they want or emotionally, personally.

Peka: Pressure in your case or in general?

Ahmetaj: In my case, it's exceptional. They went to extreme lengths; for example, when he says they don't have staff, 20 people went to Eriola's sister-in-law to check and retrieve the third phone. Twenty people for an issue I didn't sign off on or participate in the procedure. It is an issue that has no economic damage to the budget. There's no connection. How is it possible that he rushes in all the ways I know and he knows to get my file after being ambushed by Edi Rama, while he didn't take the Tirana file with a minimum of 700 million in damages? Why hasn't this hero of our children received this file?

Peka: When you say he didn't receive the file, what do you mean?

Ahmetaj: The incinerator of Tirana.

Peka: At the Elbasan incinerator, he committed himself to the file because of you. In Tirana, it is outside; it is not included because, according to you, it is Rama and Veliaj.

Ahmetaj: 100%. See what is happening with the Tirana incinerator. For two months, all Albanians knew who would be arrested; it was hard to find a thread. But why? When it went where it was supposed to, they took it to the masters who control the machinery of SPAK and said, "This one is needed, this one is used, this one is added, this one is removed," and they cleared the list. The whole world knew about it for two months. How is it possible that two months before Tirana's incinerator was seized, all of Tirana knew about it? How is it possible that only 2,000 euros were found in the Tirana incinerator? Because it was said in advance what would happen; what was done was done, and the list was cleared.

Peka: To be a little more specific for the public, you are saying that in Elbasan and Fier, where it is assumed that you could have been involved, Altin Dumani himself was engaged...

Ahmetaj: In Elbasan...

Peka: Whereas in Tirana, where you say the damage will be 700 million dollars, and in the previous interview you said that if it goes too high, the Albanians will be devastated...

Ahmetaj: This is the reason why it is not investigated.

Peka: Where Rama and Veliaj are not investigated, they do not become part of the file...

Ahmetaj: How can it become part of the file? It is controlled politically, procedurally, and not by law, but politically controlled. You saw in the parliament how he spoke on behalf of the PD, Mr. So-and-so spoke to him. Why? Where are we, a market of friends? We are here and then SP applauds. In what part of the world is the prosecutor applauded? What is he applauded for? For what... for the statistics or who implemented the orders. Agreed, how is it possible that he issued an arrest warrant for 3 months? How is it possible...

Peka: I must say that it is very interesting. Actually, we have another insert. It is clear for Altin Dumani; it is an intellectual crime, and the intellectual tries to hide it before committing the crime. Regarding the concrete issue, it is being investigated in the preliminary investigation, but it still seems as if, after the failure to investigate you for the Elbasan incinerator, the property investigation was pursued because maybe you, for Altin Dumani, are very intellectual and have taken measures to hide the crime.

Ahmetaj: Exactly, and that's what makes the whole situation even more absurd. They have focused on property investigations because they couldn't find any direct involvement in the Elbasan incinerator. It's as if they are trying to compensate for their lack of evidence by fabricating a narrative that I have hidden something. The truth is, if there were any real evidence against me, they wouldn't need to resort to these tactics. They are trying to create a smokescreen to justify their actions, but in doing so, they only expose their own motives and the political agenda behind this investigation.

I don't want to comment on these expressions because they will seriously go down in the annals of justice, showing how one should not say the wrong thing in front of the public and deputies, and how one should not use expressions of this nature to hide intellectual crime. It's actually funny. This guy is personal with me; I don't know the reason, but he knows the reason. I have apparently wronged my boss, the prime minister, my former boss. That's what he says in the corridors. And from time to time, whenever he is asked by journalists off the record, he says there are surprises for Ahmetaj, there are new revelations. In other words, his conscious and subconscious mind always brings up my name. He wants to show that he is doing his duty, saying, "Boss, I am doing my duty, I am bringing down this so-called villain. I have a personal vendetta." Didn't sign? Altin Dumani will not know whether I signed or not. He calls the sale of assets put up 20 years ago money laundering. He calls the purchase of the villa in Hamallaj by Eriola's family and Eriola money laundering. Do you know how absurd this is? You will hear it, the Albanians will hear it, and they will laugh. I don't know if this person has read the file, but it was done by those ordered by Ulsi Manja, Besmir, and his friends who referred to Ulsi Manja for work. Imagine the connections, the nepotism in vetting that is rampant. It happens that a man who is given a house passes the vetting, but not a former prosecutor or judge who was given a ticket to visit his sister or who has a beehive in a village. The vetting passes to a SPAK prosecutor who bought a villa in the same place as Eriola, for half of Eriola's amount, and by buying it not with new, fresh money put into the account yesterday, but with money accumulated over decades, it was considered money laundering.

You know that there is a SPAK letter, from "Nixon Peabody," that even the High Inspector of Justice has not read, the Speaker of the Assembly did not open it, I know why she did not open it, but we will reveal that later. Ulsi Manja downloaded it but hasn't read it; he says to the prime minister, "Look what we did to this guy," I don't know why. Maybe Ulsi doesn't know why this happened to me. They say, "Look at what we've done to him." I know what he said.

Peka: What did he say?

Ahmetaj: Arben Ahmetaj nominated the OSHEE board members and claims that Klodian Zoto, along with the businessman who sold the house, entered a tender at OSHEE and won 700-800, but in fact, they won over 1 million, and there is enough money for the Hamallaj house as well. Don’t be surprised, that’s what they said.

Peka: This is the link he made in his file?

Ahmetaj: Whoever wants to read it, let the journalists take it and laugh.

Peka: So you have dominated the OSHEE board members?

Ahmetaj: There was a tender that Zoto won with the businessman who sold the house to Eriola. They claim that the money won in that tender is enough to buy the house. This is not a legal relationship; it’s more like, "Oh great God, save us." First, for those who don’t know, the members of the OSHEE board were not appointed by the Minister of Economy; the minister only handled the procedure as a representative of the owner. The line ministers, such as those of justice and infrastructure, nominated and brought the names, and the Minister of Economy just managed the procedure. Even if it were true that I appointed them, the board doesn’t handle tenders. Thirdly, by government decision, OSHEE reports and is dependent on the Minister of Infrastructure and Energy, which is outside any position I have held. Fourthly, the World Bank and OSHEE conducted this tender, and it was won. This tender is not about corruption, but my money being brought for the house. They have added endless waters to the file because the courts decide as they want. We carry a file of 600 pages, 200 of which are only about the procedure involving Teri and Alqi. Another 100 pages are about whether I knew Mirel or not. The rest are about these properties, travels, etc. It’s like a travel agency record, he traveled with Teri and Alqi and Eriola. I have never traveled with Teri and Alqi. Never. Stupidity of this nature.

This tender has no corruption; I paid money for what? They want me accused during the months of September-December 2022 when they found out that I was not part of the procedure and not guilty. For all presumed from innocence, they want more respect. Not for one to say, as the prime minister does, if I were a judge and prosecutor, he would have it worse. While for the other, he says; don’t talk to me about Beqaj, there is a presumption of innocence. For me, there was no presumption of innocence; for Beqaj, there is. What about me? Am I the one who went to my mother's house because I had broken the unity? That is, I should continue the course of going to my mother's place, since we did well for the masquerade, to go to my mother's place, God forbid, without a homeland, in search of justice, because this has become the master of the homeland and the flag. Now, I am coming to the next one. For what reason did he issue an arrest warrant for me, while on the day he demanded my immunity in agreement with the prime minister, with Rama?

Peka: Let's talk with names, so that the people can understand. When you say this, you mean Altin Dumani?

Ahmetaj: Yes, Altin Dumani. One was in a cabriolet, with the deputy prime minister and the former director. They were celebrating with a stick the roads that we will come to, how they were made, and they were celebrating the removal of my immunity and my arrest. That's why he was in a hurry. Now, I am taking some examples. I really have other faith in all the cases that I will mention here. Now I am sharing with the citizens, how is it possible that he comes and arrests.

Peka: Unlike the first interview, today you came with a lot of letters.

Ahmetaj: How many letters are there? Altin Dumani comes and brings the arrest after three months. Do you know what he said about corruption when he was asked by one of the opposition, the most dignified one, the judge who asked him; what a hurry you are in to bring about the arrest. That spoils our evidence, said Dumani. Now, I'm holding behavior to a totally different standard. The Beqaj case. Normal, free state. Average case, normal, great injustice to him, free state. The case of Veliaj, is on top of his duty, continues to pay the incinerator, 5D on the other hand, he does not spoil the evidence Erion, I was spoiling it because I was nothing. The case of Olta Xhaçka, normal, the case of Krifca, normal, the case of Plarent Ndreca, normal. There must be no arrest, there must not be, they cannot be treated like in the Middle Ages. The Beqaj case. How is it possible that they arrest Beqaj, six months after the pseudo-evidence was declared in the media. Why should he be arrested, why? Edi Rama's theater, let's arrest him for this little thing, shut up these people. Complete theater. I left letters about sterilization, let it disappear, just as they disappeared a letter from EcoPark, but they don't know that it exists somewhere. They must know that letter exists somewhere.

Peka: You left a letter about sterilization...

Ahmetaj: Yes, in November and December 2018, let them disappear, hide them, they are there and those letters are all in a box.

Peka: What letter did you leave about sterilization...

Ahmetaj: Which is destructive, and that a ceiling should be set. But that doesn't matter. I'm back to the double standard. I am asking the Albanian citizens, I mentioned all these names, forgive me, they have a presumption of innocence in me, everyone I have mentioned. What was I? I may have talked about all sorts of things. But as far as I am concerned with crime, the whole of Albania, the whole world knows that I have had no connection. There was a man, Sali Berisha, who hit me unjustly all the time. He has said one thing publicly, this man at least cannot accuse him of being related to crime. Why did he have to bring an arrest warrant, satisfy the boss to go to his mother's house? What was the reason, statistics, he dares to brag about my name and then says, it's personal. Come on boy, please make up your mind, this is not justice reform. You are not only destroying the reform, but together with Rama, you are subverting democracy. Because on the day that justice falls prey to political pressure and turns into political police, the damage it causes to democracy is fundamental and I tell you, the capture of justice, God forbid, invites violence. I say it as a citizen now and as a person who has contributed to that country that comes to mind.

Peka: You are telling the leader of SPAK to recall his duty as a citizen, yet you are wanted by him. How can you advise the head of SPAK when he accuses you of corruption and hiding from justice? My question is specific: If Altin Dumani boards a plane, comes to you, and asks for your testimony, are you ready to give it? Recently, there have been statements suggesting surprises. Is Arben Ahmetaj ready, here and now, without these cameras, to provide his testimony and all his claims, particularly about the Tirana incinerator, which you mentioned in your first interview as something that would outrage Albanians. Are you willing to sit in front of Altin Dumani and give this testimony?

Ahmetaj: I have a question for you. Does he have the courage to address the legal violations that brought Altin Dumani to seek evidence from me? Does he have the courage? No, he doesn't. He appears on screens saying they requested extradition. As far as I'm concerned, he's being sought by his own justice system, the one he says will do what they are told. Or by the justice of Edi Rama, who insults and threatens SPAK when needed, then defends them. He attacks the Tirana prosecutor, then uses SPAK for certain projects, pressuring them. He claims, 'this one is needed, this one isn't coming because he's 3 meters tall, this one is 173 cm, this one is stealing.' He lacks courage. He would have courage if he had integrity as a prosecutor and within his institution. But he does not. Secondly, my dear, the documents are there, yet you don't see them. Where are the 80 million dollars from Tirana's incinerator? Follow the money. Where is it? Denisa Tollkuçi, who negotiated a 1500-euro salary and worked at the Tirana incinerator, is accused of being part of a structured criminal group. Meanwhile, 80 million dollars are missing, and there is no incinerator. Who is responsible? Ask Edi Rama if he ever discussed the Elbasan incinerator procedure with Arben Ahmetaj. Zero. Secondly, do you remember what Ahmetaj told you in the prime minister's corridor about the public investment in Fier? Thirdly, what happened...

Peka: What did you tell him...

Ahmetaj: It doesn't matter, ask him to remember. Third, what happened in the summer of 2017 since the Tirana incinerator was signed on August 31. I have opposed Tirana. What happened to the actors? Can you ask the Prime Minister of the new justice system to give you an answer? Zero with Elbasan.

Peka: Zero communication for Elbasan, zero for Fier...

Ahmetaj: Regarding Fier, in the initial stage of public investment, not the procedure, I talked with him in the corridor of the prime minister.

Peka: What about Tirana...

Ahmetaj: For Tirana, it's the letters, the rejection. Yes, it's the documents.

Peka: When you rejected him, what did he tell you...

Ahmetaj: What can he say to me? He has worked with me and then appears on the screen and says he hasn't spoken, that he has remained silent. He knows very well that I can't be silenced. At one point, I even told him, even publicly, that maybe he wanted to be my enemy. I couldn't remain silent about these things.

Peka: Actually, this is the most interesting part. Here’s what you said before Edi Rama's attack on you began: zero communication for Elbasan and written communication for Tirana, which you refused. You said, "I was not the major power to sign 17 VKMs within a day."

Ahmetaj: Do you know why I said that? Not to blame anyone, but to show Edi Rama and SPAK that I was outside the procedure, and that the procedure was conducted in a direct collegial manner with the decision of the Council of Ministers. Why do they focus on Elbasan? There are two interesting conspiracy theories. When unwitting and willing conspiracy theories are promoted and sponsored, the truth loses its value. Where is this whole story of Ben Ahmetaj and the incinerators based? On my acquaintance with Mirel Mërtiri. Now, when the papers come out, it will show that I rejected the Tirana incinerator. As far as you know, ask the prosecutors, ask Belinda Balluku. The companies in Fieri and Elbasan have lost money. I have opposed the Tirana project. The nonsense these people say in the embassies and media about me being involved, staying here or there, has nothing to do with the accusations they make. I will also tell you the nature of the accusations. I have acted in the public interest, despite my former friendship with a person who is not the owner of the Tirana incinerator. Those boys were treated harshly and used by SPAK illegally. I will reveal that, for my alleged vices, illegal communication was used between Altin Dumani and the incinerators. Let Altin Dumani explain how he managed this. He owes an explanation to himself and the public. How did Altin Dumani know about this for pseudo reasons of vice? Even if I had these vices, it does not affect my official work...

Peka: Altin Dumani is also investigating you for improper behavior...

Ahmetaj: I now believe that in order to commit to the usurper in the justice reform of Edi Rama, indirectly Erion Veliaj, and indirectly Belinda Balluku and Ulsi Manja, a "salto mortal"e was performed.

Peka: It's time to talk concretely. You have rejected Tirana's incinerator. The question is, you rejected it, so who approved it? What is the role of Edi Rama and Erion Veliaj in the Tirana incinerator, and did your friendship with Mirel Mërtiri end when you rejected the Tirana incinerator? These are things that require answers. Summer of 2017, investigate what happened at the end of August 2017. Who made the Tirana incinerator possible?

Ahmetaj: Who made it possible...

Peka: You have to tell me this...

Ahmetaj: Edi Rama, Erion Veliaj. Edi Rama and Erion Veliaj made it possible. It was blocked. Ask him, maybe at some point, Edi Rama will decide to be honest about what he communicated and with whom in the summer of 2017. Maybe he will decide not to be the joker, but I hope to awaken his conscience and he will reveal what non-formal guarantees he asked for, from whom he asked for them, what conversations were held, etc.

Peka: Did Edi Rama communicate with you in August 2017?

Ahmetaj: About this issue? Do you know what communication I had with Edi Rama in 2017? I was in the hospital because I had an accident with Mirel Mërtiri, and that’s where the conspiracy theory to obscure the truth comes from. There was a need for a normative act to review investments, and I got out of bed and called the Ministry of Finance employees to the hospital to prepare the normative act, so it would be ready when the new government was formed to move forward quickly. I did this. No, he did not communicate with me about the Tirana incinerator. He did not need to, because I was neither a user, nor a client, nor a contracting authority. I had already left the documents.

Peka: And you had refused...

Ahmetaj: I had left a letter, in black and white. That’s the whole story.

Peka: In relation to Edi Rama, is that letter and rejection the biggest mistake of Arben Ahmetaj's life?

Ahmetaj: No, no. I have no regrets.

Peka: Did the clash start here...

Ahmetaj: Clashes with the Prime Minister? I had my good and bad days; I clashed with the Prime Minister many times. They all know that.

Peka: Edi Rama did not communicate with you about the Tirana incinerator because you refused. You mentioned earlier that if he were to speak, he should reveal whom he communicated with and what was discussed. What informal guarantees did he ask for? Who did he talk to?

Ahmetaj: Ask him. At the moment, I don't know.

Peka: Do you expect to receive more information later?

Ahmetaj: Ask him. Memory may come later. Did we postpone the interview because of COVID? When the mind and brain are cleared of COVID, they might remember...

Peka: Every journalist would make this intervention: Arben Ahmetaj, you know what he communicated and how he intervened, but you are not saying it because you are sending a message.

Ahmetaj: No, it is not like that. I have no message to give. I have already given my message. I am fully motivated to pursue my rights and my family's rights to the end. Today, I feel like I am in a surreal situation, as if I were a Jewish family in Poland in 1939-1940. I feel that level of persecution. From my children, ex-wife, wife, ex-brother-in-law, brothers-in-law, sister, friends, and life contacts, it's a massacre. Altin Dumani says that there are no people involved, and he is not dealing with the Tirana incinerator, where the pit was built with OLAF funds, sterilization, the roads, it's a pit worth billions. I know what Edi Rama said, that you didn't pay attention to him and that he likes another dimension...

Peka: I don't like it at all, but your government, which you were a part of, has caused so many scandals that I don't know what to say anymore.

Ahmetaj: I know what the prime minister said.

Peka: Arben Ahmetaj decided to speak publicly only when he was personally attacked.

Ahmetaj: Definitely. I spoke internally when I was inside. Now that I'm outside, I'll speak outside.

Peka: What did the prime minister say?

Ahmetaj: He said, "The Achilles heel of corruption is tenders." Now I will bring you four examples.

Peka: Before we go there, you made a very strong statement, and I don't want to go back because I want to hear your turn. Arben Ahmetaj has no responsibility for the Tirana incinerator, and it was done with the intervention of Edi Rama and Erion Veliaj. My question is: you said millions of euros were stolen there. Is Rama and Veliaj responsible?

Ahmetaj: I think Altin Dumani is also responsible today. Why is there only this one for the Tirana incinerator? He said we are worried about the arbitration. I will bring you an illogical example.

Peka: Altin Dumani has responsibility, but do they have responsibility or not?

Ahmetaj: Let me use an example from Minister Balluku. She refused to pay the final amount for the Fier incinerator, which is a public investment. This, in one sense, is practically economic damage for a project that deteriorates. On the other hand, why isn't the same logic applied to the Tirana incinerator? Stop the budget bleeding today, stop it. Cancel the contract today and follow the money. Don't follow me for Eriola's bathroom tiles. Follow them too. You know they called witnesses and threatened them.

Peka: How did they threaten them?

Ahmetaj: He told someone, "This is the last time I call you as a knowledgeable person if you don't change your testimony." I know what prosecutor Enkelejda Millonaj told someone.

Peka: Altin Dumani told someone that if they don't change their testimony, next time he won't call them as a knowledgeable person...

Ahmetaj: Yes, in the corridor, because they have cameras in the rooms.

Peka: What did Millonaj do?

Ahmetaj: Millonaj told a woman, "I will take you to the threshing floor," when she asked. This representative of the new justice speaks to a citizen in front of her as if she were the Gestapo.

Peka: For what reason?

Ahmetaj: Regarding my case, she told her to tell the truth or she would take her to the threshing floor, like the Gestapo. This is the new justice we aspired to? We voted for this? No. This is what the USA, which is the only guarantee, has aspired for, to ensure that everyone who degrades this new justice is held accountable, and to restore human rights and the presumption of innocence. The only guarantee is the USA.

Peka: There are no guarantees. Let's get back to the point. Millions of euros were stolen in Tirana. You rejected it, Rama and Veliaj postponed it, and from what I see, so did Belinda Balluku. Who took this stolen money?

Ahmetaj: I don't know; it's not my job. I have asked to follow the money. They follow Eriola's sister-in-law.

Peka: Mirel Mërtiri took this money...

Ahmetaj: What Mirel? He is a victim. Once a hardworking boy, they have used, eliminated, and stigmatized him. Stop involving Mirel Mërtiri. The whole story is a development of the conspiracy theory that Mërtiri and Zoto are the ringleaders. Who made the Tirana incinerator?

Peka: Who made the Tirana incinerator?

Ahmetaj: It was done by Edi Rama and Erion Veliaj.

Peka: And the economic damage will reach 700 million euros...

Ahmetaj: It will if it is not stopped today. And what is the reason that the money is not followed?

Peka: And the economic damage will reach 700 million euros if it is not stopped today, and you are saying that Mirel Mërtiri is a victim. The Tirana incinerator was made by Edi Rama and Erion Veliaj.

Ahmetaj: Mirel Mërtiri is a victim. He was used. The martyrdom of a once hardworking boy who got up at 5 o'clock in the morning was put into a difficult situation, which we will detail in our third meeting. They told him that this disaster was in his way. I had no power to prevent it because I could not participate in the procedure. I was in a position unrelated to the procedure. Nor was I a contracting authority.

Peka: But you refused with a letter...

Ahmetaj: I definitely refused. I asked that all the risks of a public investment be borne by the private sector. Whether they like it or not, it’s their responsibility.

Peka: You are saying that Mirel Mërtiri was told that you prevented him from going to the Tirana incinerator...

Ahmetaj: When they sent them somewhere else, not to the big man's office (Edi Rama), but somewhere else. He controls everything. Even the prayer for me, except he is the owner of the flag, the homeland, that I am without a homeland, that I am a pig in the forest, so I was a pig in the forest. That's why the Albanian media were the cauldron, because this is how they treat the media, like the cauldron from Top Channel to Carlo. The Prime Minister rightly said that the Achilles heel of corruption is tenders. I said I will bring four examples.

Peka: You are saying many things... to which office did they send Mirel Mërtiri...

Ahmetaj: I don't know in which office. Let Altin Dumani investigate. Don't be taken in five times, that after my exit from the interview, in addition to making family accusations and persecutions like Jews in 1939-40 in Poland, in addition to exceeding the legal limits with family persecution, now he has the duty to investigate so there is no more bleeding. Has the prime minister said that the Achilles heel of corruption is the tenders? Four examples. Infrastructure, with all the dependent institutions, has made somewhere around 10 billion euros in tenders since 2019.

Peka: Belinda Balluku since 2019, 10 billion euros in tenders...

Ahmetaj: I have the numbers because I have them on my computer, and their own people bring them to me. Erion Veliaj has around 5-6 billion euros. Without building permits, Health has around 2-3 billion euros. Arben Ahmetaj, in all the positions he has held, zero lek. Four examples. Altin Dumani, after showing himself as a target of the sultanate, refuses to investigate the Tirana incinerator, where the bloodshed is a horror. Now, let me tell you something. Imagine if I gave you four examples for a second. The presumption of innocence is a presumption. If I brought you four examples, for statistics: Belinda Balluku since 2019, with all dependent institutions, almost 10 billion euros. Erion Veliaj somewhere between 5-6 billion, without construction permits. Health somewhere around 2-3 billion. I have zero. So I'm not the Achilles' heel.

Peka: In your life as an official, you have zero tender value. Belinda Balluku has 10 billion euros in tenders, Veliaj 6 billion, Health 3 billion. While Rama has said that the Achilles' heel in corruption is the tenders. You have zero tenders, and these are not investigated.

Ahmetaj: If I were the prosecutor and the judge, I would send this to hell. He would send me to hell. Look, the whole conspiracy theory is based on these two pillars. It is an intentional conspiracy theory to bury the truth. He knew Mirel Mërtiri. Yes, I knew him, why didn't you talk to me about Elbasan, but you asked for 17 decisions to come in a second, you did it by direct procurement and with a pretense, you made guilty the one who is not guilty and is in prison. Where did you get this recognition? What about Tirana, why did you do it? I had refused, I, who knew him. And then the other, that this broke the unity of the SP. You saw how they are eating each other now, they are ready to kill each other. After my departure, they are ready to kill each other, as I was breaking the unity; the unity there had to be spectacular.

Peka: Are they really ready to collide?

Ahmetaj: They are ready to eat each other's heads. I see them, I know what they do with each other, who carries documents for whom. I have not sent any documents. I loved one as my sister, the other as if I had an older brother. I was ambushed.

Peka: Sister was Belinda, brother was Rama...

Ahmetaj: There's nothing right now, respect my thing too, I'm...

Peka: I also respect the public to be as specific as possible. And they ambushed you.

Ahmetaj: Ambushed…

Peka: Edi Rama, Belinda Balluku...

Ahmetaj: Erion Veliaj, don't forget him. And look at what Erion Veliaj does. Veliaj threatens Edi Rama. I didn't know what was happening with 5D, with this, with that, and the prime minister didn't know what the deputy prime minister was doing. I'm telling you now, Edi Rama knew 100% what I did. 100%. But this sends a threatening message: "I know what you did." To say, "You know what the deputy prime minister has done, you know where you have it." This one has no signature anywhere. This company only has to reduce the debt and the deficit. This man has so much expertise in entering the international market and providing reconstruction financing and the reconstruction law that I had to do zero tenders. And I did zero tenders. You know what they did to Ola Xama. They massacred her to put her in the compound. They say, "You have received a tender, Ben Ahmetaj gave you the reconstruction tender." While they have made it complex. A journalist is not complicated, but her husband received subcontracts from companies that received tenders from the Municipality of Tirana. I did not do any reconstruction tenders. Zero. I wrote it down in the law myself. So imagine, Çim Peka, let me tell you one thing: if I had done the IPARD. If only I had done 5D. These guys inside, 5D, didn't. If only I had done all the chaos of the roads, if only I had done all the chaos of energy. If I had done AKSHI. AKSHI is Edi Rama's private garden.

Peka: AKSHI is Edi Rama's private garden?

Ahmetaj: Imagine if my employees had done 5D, had done the road tenders, imagine if my employees had done these Tiger payments in Vlora. Edi Rama, as the pioneer of controlled anti-corruption, and Altin Dumani, both together as the heroes of our children, would both come out with thugs to kill me in the streets of Tirana and then take my body and sentence it to 20-30 years in prison after death. They are slaughtering my family from the start, zero tenders, zero signatures. Based on all this, he has recognized him. Even if it was my idea. I've said it before, I don't have knowledge for the waste; I know very well what I have knowlege for. Idea and implementation are two different things. Who are they selling these conspiracy theories to? They go the the embassies. They let us down. Meanwhile, zero signatures, the money from the Tirana incinerator is not found, and the real culprits are not facing justice.

Peka: You have knowledge for the waste, you have worked for 11 years with waste. Only when the smell of waste comes to you do you react. You mentioned some examples where there is terrible financial bleeding. Did you just learn about it today? To the colleagues of RAI, a somewhat stolen testimony, you have claimed that you have seen the most dangerous criminal groups in the prime minister's office and that he continues to cooperate with them. These are nothing but waste, and you have continued to work with them and have not reacted publicly. That's why you only find out about the waste, but you should have helped us remove this waste in time.

Ahmetaj: I have done my job, and I stand by my words. I said what I said. Even in government retreats, even in government meetings, I told him.

Peka: Did you tell the prime minister why did he hang out with criminal groups?

Ahmetaj: Me, to tell the prime minister why does he hang out with criminal groups? I found out who was in and who was out much later, when the face, the voice, and the name came together. It's not my job. I have personal duty. He has personal responsibility. How can you go and request a casino license from the prime minister? Why, what is this, a license distributor? This one appoints the architects, gives the energy licenses, gives the construction permits, gives the islands and peninsulas. What does this have to do with responsibility and procedure? Yes, there is work; he also decides the color of the buildings, to understand that there is nothing there that does not cross his desk. The first producer of apples, pears, and peaches. Then he comes out and makes jokes, saying they have eaten pears on my back, complaining about SP facing justice. With what justice, with what you have deformed. This was not the justice we wanted. With two standards. It doesn't affect the people you love. You will not touch Erion Veliaj; you have introduced Erion Veliaj into the psychology of the man who is on the edge of the precipice. Why don't you hand him over? You don't give him up because you love him half to death. Even Erion has the right to be presumed innocent. You have seen the discussions and threats with each other that they have made endless deals. And this one says, I keep him half-dead because my strategy is working. I have fucked the opposition; the entire opposition deals with Veliaj. I want them to deal with him. My strategy is working. I don't let this die, God forbid even if not physically, I keep it there at the edge of the cliff, and that's where the tension is. Away from me, tension. It's a strategy. He purposely introduced Erion to this kind of psychology.

Peka: And you are saying that you are holding Erion Veliaj, you are not letting him go.

Ahmetaj: It is not even discussed; we are not about to bet with justice.

Peka: In your opinion, how much influence does it have on Altin Dumani?

Ahmetaj: Not only on Altin Dumani, but on the entire structure of justice. I know in detail. We have time to talk with first names and last names. We will be at the third and fourth meeting; I will not stop. This is one of the 6 names, that if something happens to me, the file and records come up. Yes. I don't even want to know.

Peka: This is one of the 6 names... Edi Rama?

Ahmetaj: Yes, of course. It does not matter. There are 6 names, that if something happens to me, they are the responsible persons, with names and profiles.

Peka: If something happens to you?

Ahmetaj: Yes, and I don't want to know.

Peka: You are saying that you deposited the guarantee somewhere...

Ahmetaj: It is not a guarantee. What I have done is not important for the citizens. I am an individual unjustly accused and used as a scapegoat to close the incinerator affair. The shit has hit the ceiling. You understand what happened. There is no incinerator, and there is no money. The contract with $1 million per month and from there on, media included. Did I say in the interview that there is a structure that knows the arms but does not know the head that practically includes politics, media, and the incinerator? Did TCH come out involved? Endrit Habilaj. I'm sorry. I don't want to see anybody in the situation I'm in. They were used by Vjollca Hoxha. How come TCH doesn't talk about Eco Park at all? Why? A former friend of mine said that TCH is a partisan of anti-corruption. Where do you have it? They have been talking about me for 2 months. For nothing. They have talked about my life. Why? Paid by the incinerators; the facts are coming out. Contracts for the sale and purchase of company assets, including the director of TCH. Every time some episodic news about me comes out, TCH rushes to get it out, Carlo does, paid by the incinerators. All are paid by the incinerators. Even the one who made the accusation declared it, saying they made him a contract with Klod Zoto; they mixed up the name. He did it with one of the incinerators to hit me. Okay, he did it; well, he did it. I have nothing to do with him; he is a mercenary.

Peka: The journalist who denounced you, Adriatik Doçi, made a contract...

Ahmetaj: My grudge is with the justice that is used, with the media that was used, with the politics that intervened. All three of them. With my friends who didn't read the file and told Altin Dumani; what are you taking out, look at what you wrote. Although this one has no signature and has not been positioned in positions of responsibility, it is thought to be the head of the incinerator? How, with the holy spirit? Complete justice captured. Look at the other cases. The Beleri case, just like me, makes it a popular trial. It's the old Soviet style—they make a popular trial, this is a sham, there are vices, then they take such a large file to the judge with bullshit and the judge says; Arben Ahmetaj, this is a bastard that I heard on TCH. And what should I read now while Altin Dumani says in his ear; the court does almost exactly what we ask. To be sentenced to 200 years in prison. It turns out that there is no signature. That is, the system has been overturned. And let me tell you that Edi Rama likes that Albania is under an anti-justice terror. That the terror of anti-justice is to numb the conscience of the middle class by instilling fear. And this is not PS. SP is a liberal partisan of a democratic society. This is not the SP, it's this person, and he should come up with jokes and continue as long as he wants.

Peka: That's the former SP

Ahmetaj: No, no, that's where the soul is. Fatmir Xhafa wanted to speak. Forgive me, but I know everything that happens in the SP, the prime minister, the municipality, the Ministry of Infrastructure. Everything. And now the citizens have started sending endless documents, as if I don't have enough trouble.

Peka: You have become a digital citizen in exile...

Ahmetaj: I have a different nature, I am too direct to become a digital citizen, I cannot do that. So with SP I only have this. Reading the file because there are people with a lot of integrity. Fatmir Xhafaj wanted to speak, but he stopped him from speaking. He stopped him from speaking. I know everything.

Peka: Where did Fatmir Xhafaj want to speak?

Ahmetaj: The day my immunity was lifted, he wanted to talk about the principle. Wait, that presumption of innocence. He stopped it.

Peka: A man of integrity cannot be stopped from speaking. Who stopped him from talking later? One thing we share and will never be together on is your report and judgment about SP. I consider it a criminal organization, you consider it SP.

Ahmetaj: You said facts, facts. You want facts? Prime minister's yard.

Peka: We are back...

Ahmetaj: You want facts, you want Edi Rama's family yard. Since it has entered my family, they have illegally entered the door. It is very easy to get into a man's house; I don't know how easy it is to get out. Here is AKSHI. It has been 8 months since it was investigated; an environmental monitoring was done, it is in SPAK. They can even eliminate it, but someone else has it. Someone has it, and that someone has assured me that a copy of it is in a box. They did an environmental surveillance where the Prime Minister's family was involved in AKSHI. 43 million through loans.

Peka: The Prime Minister's family has been implicated by AKSHI in environmental surveillance...

Ahmetaj: His name has come up in many things related to that environmental interception. These are not just rumors. Since that day, ABS, a prestanome for people close to the Prime Minister, has unexpectedly received 43 million. This disrupts everything because he was called to SPAK and testified. I know what he said in SPAK. I'm sure the Prime Minister knows as well. Here are 43 million. Now it's under someone else's control. AKSHI is terrifying. Daniel has been threatened. Those who understand know to keep quiet. Daniel has been threatened by the Prime Minister himself to stay silent. Let him go out and make jokes, no, he said...

Peka: Who is Daniel?

Ahmetaj: A former employee of ABS.

Peka: Was he threatened by the Prime Minister?

Ahmetaj: Yes, directly. I said it again, let him come out with jokes. This wanted man, this pig in the forest, this man woithout a homeland.

Peka: Let's move away from the jokes.

Ahmetaj: Secondly, the Llogara tunnel is a Persian affair, corrupt affair. In other words, a very reputable Albanian company competed in the tender and won. They canceled it. The company won with a bid of 140 million euros. After meetings were held in Ankara… Let’s continue with the jokes, because I will tell you details. The tender was awarded to a Turkish consortium which, according to...

Peka: Who conducted the talks in Ankara?

Ahmetaj: You have all the evidence with pictures. According to all the analyses I have conducted on the balance sheets, no machinery has been brought in. The prestigious subcontractor Gjokaj did the work again. But the Turkish company, after taxes, in the calculations based on their accounting balances that I have carefully studied, made 32 million euros. 32 million without doing anything. Because you wanted facts. Since you told me that someone says I have no facts. I am not 007; no one has made a deal with me for a million reasons. He knows who he deals with himself. Let him order all the gangsters and criminals. I know what he says to the government: "Definitely find out what Ben Ahmetaj has done." He says it in government meetings; his people tell me. So, the Turkish consortium only billed the profit. Zero machinery and equipment; all the work was done by the Albanian company. The question is why they took it away from Gjokaj, who did all the work. Why did they take away 140 million euros, and why did it increase to 190 million euros with today's exchange rate? What happened in Ankara? Who is this corruption in tenders being shown to? There you have it. Will Altin Dumani follow the evidence? The tender was taken away from Gjokaj under pressure, who offered 140 million euros. It was re-tendered at 190 million euros with today's exchange rate, and a prearranged procedure awarded it to "InterkarASL," a Turkish consortium. The Turkish consortium has not brought any machinery or equipment to Albania. Gjokaj did all the work.

Peka: So it was given to someone with 50 million euros more in costs?

Ahmetaj: Yes. And the same company that had its tender canceled ended up doing the work because they specialize in tunnels.

Peka: And the agreement was made in Ankara.

Ahmetaj: Yes, definitely. Let them say whatever they want; it wasn't through official meetings. If they want to continue the conversation, let them. This Altin Dumani, the hero of my children, why doesn't he deal with the bloodshed…

Peka: The minister responsible for this tender, Belinda Balluku? Was Belinda Balluku in Turkey when this meeting took place?

Ahmetaj: You and Altin should investigate it. You as a journalist and Altin as a prosecutor. Nooo, they would come to me, let's get him to hell, because this is what this great man of the state told us.

Peka: Let's continue...

Ahmetaj: Do you know how much the Turk paid? 2 million euros in salary. Bechtel paid 50 million. Imagine, the management was done by Gjoka; they got extra money without doing anything. Let them investigate it; they do not dare to because, as he tells people, “God, wherever we open a file, it involves the Prime Minister.” And they do not dare to continue it. He said it, and I tell Edi Rama, that's what he said. Every time you open a file, you appear, according to him. You who said that the Achilles' heel of corruption is in tenders, that Infrastructure has made almost 10 billion in tenders, the municipality 6 billion, Health 3 billion in tenders, and Ben Ahmetaj zero. And this arrest warrant for me. And people start saying, “Oh brother, yes, it's definitely political, but that's how they are.” Oh. In other words, Albania is a shit hole for them. They do not care for what is right. They do not care for the reform in justice, because here we have Kim Jong-un, who commands everything underground and above board with jokes, and they wanted to make a former vice-prime minister a scapegoat to use as a statistic for their need for success. Here is the fact, since you wanted a fact.

Peka: We went from AKSHI to the tunnels...

Ahmetaj: The Becketi case. Do you know why the Becketi case was not investigated and it was overturned? Do you know how Becketti won the case in New York?

Peka: I know.

Ahmetaj: No, you don't. Threatening messages from the Albanian authorities. Why don't you get the file? If it is investigated, the damage caused by 2 people amounts to 120 million euros in interest. Why was the commission of inquiry for Becketti rejected? What was the reason?

Peka: You've been inside, you know.

Ahmetaj: This is the reason. If they went there to get the file, they would read the SMS and the threats. We agree that Beketi is not a good man, a manipulator of arbitration, but he won international trials based on communication and arbitrary threats from the Albanian authorities. 120 million euros. Where is Altin Dumani? He is worried about Eriola's bathroom tiles, but not about 120 million euros...

Peka: Perhaps for the Beketi case, Dumani started from your interview on News24, when Beketi won the trial, and you said that he will never get that money.

Ahmetaj: I wouldn't give it to him. If I were still the Minister of Finance, I wouldn't give it to him. We are not talking about whether he would get the money or not. The deficit could not be sustained. One day he will take it, because he will block Albania's international resources, but with my signature as Minister of Finance, I would not give it to him; I would not be able to do it. Maybe I would have committed a violation, but I never received any court decision on the table. I would not give that money because he is manipulative. But there is a consolidated legal cause in his file, including the threats and arbitrary actions of the Albanian authorities. Who is responsible for the damage? Why didn't the commission of inquiry allow it? It is very easy to enter a man's house; I don't know how easy it is to leave.

Peka: AKSHI, Llogara tunnel, Beketi. What else?

Ahmetaj: The international architects are all appointed by Rama. All of them. How is it possible, for example, that ADF is asked to make a limited tender for multifunctional buildings? A limited tender for multifunctional buildings, and no direct tender was made for the earthquake. Is the tender predetermined? I'm begging Tan to be a guy with integrity like he's been all along and not do these things. Let him ask for it, along with that other one from the other side of the corridor.

Peka: Who is it Tani?

Ahmetaj: Dritan Agolli of ADF. Ecopark has signed itself, they have disappeared a letter that they think does not exist.

Peka: Let's stop at the Ecopark.

Ahmetaj: Why doesn't Dumani investigate the Ecopark? Why does he fabricate accusations against me? Wasn't "Buka SHA" enough, which is ridiculous. Was my arrest by his own employee not enough? Why does he keep asking, threatening, God save him, God help him. Why does he continue to threaten, what is the reason? He will go to hell, I will go to hell, but until that day I will do this thing that I do, with all my legal ways. It is very easy to illegally pass the door of a man's house. I don't know if it easy to get out.

Peka: EcoPark, what is it?

Ahmetaj: He signed the EcoPark contract directly and received it from a consortium of incinerator companies. Meanwhile, one of the family members was employed by the incinerators as the architect to handle the project before it went out to tender. Is this a fact or not? I am not the snake that bites in the breast; the snake is the one that lies in wait. I have the fault of being direct. I have other defects that I sometimes struggle with. Yes, I trusted you and naively worked 24 hours a day. I did it for Albania. I was reading the McGonigal file. You know that there are videos of McGonigal with the Albanian authorities in a factory in Dubai.

Peka: In Dubai, there are videos of McGonigal with the Albanian authorities in a factory?

Ahmetaj: Yes. Yes. Who corrupted McGonigal? Me?

Peka: Prime Minister, it's in the file; it's not a secret.

Ahmetaj: Is Altin Dumani investigating, or is he dealing with Eriola's bathroom tiles?

Peka: How can Altin Dumani investigate when the Secretary of State arrives on the day McGonigal will be sentenced?

Ahmetaj: I have no business with. That's a different matter. If I say so, behind every project there is a person who needs to rotate the power. In every project awarded. Why don't you calm him down? Now you’re fighting. People from Albania.

Peka: They tell you...

Ahmetaj: Yes. I told someone, what to calm down? I will go to hell. Yes, I will leave this world one day and a man leaves, it's normal. He leaves fighting for his rights, using legal means. So, let this one continue to mock, the boar of the forest.

Peka: I mean, I’m not the only one who comes from Albania to interview you. There are others who come and give you a message to calm down.

Ahmetaj: Yes, I have phones, too. Look, don't focus on the fact that he's like Kim Jong-un, who kills you, kills whom? Let him release them, as he did in Tirana. They want to blame... Hey, you and Belinda made 10 billion in tenders; 6 billion was done by the other one, 3 billion by her. Zero for me. Ah, the Prime Minister knows, let's take send this one to hell. The Prime Minister knows what his deputy has done, says the other one. I invited the Albanians to imagine that I had done all these atrocities. And they came out in convertibles to celebrate the removal of my immunity. I tell Altin Dumani that there is no incinerator.

Peka: There is none.

Ahmetaj: The money is missing, but I have a question. Who had the obligation to monitor the contract? Who was the contracting authority? Belinda Balluku, is there any report? Is there a work report or a concession progress report? This is a case of abuse of office. At least they throw the responsibility to Erion Veliaj. No, Veliaj doesn’t have it. Erion Veliaj, according to the standards used by SPAK, with the emails he sent, ordering who pays and who doesn’t, is the de facto owner of the Tirana incinerator. The Deputy Prime Minister, the Minister of Infrastructure, has been tasked with monitoring since 2019. Is there any report? There isn’t. Why doesn’t Altin Dumani see this? Is he the Prime Minister's man? Let him tell us this. If he didn’t tell us, we wouldn’t do it. For this, he told us, let him go to hell. He sent an advisor to SPAK, Rama. It’s not a rumor. He sent him and said, "Guys, the Prime Minister wants him in jail." We’ll state it a third time by name. These are the facts. Then he uses the media against you.  TCH deals with me, while nothing is covered regarding AKSHI or the roads. The editorial director of TCH is Belinda Balluku. People from the inside, I’ve recorded them saying that everything is done by Belinda Balluku orders. You know what they did to the poor Ervin Mete.

Peka: The poor Ervin Mete, Minister of Finance.

Ahmetaj: Yes. The wife of one of my childhood friends was fired after my dismissal. She went to complain to the line minister, Ervin. Someone spied in the hall, opened the door, and sent news to the Prime Minister. Mercenary journalists were ordered to target Ervin Mete. After 2-3 days, on portals paid for and controlled by Edi Rama, it was reported that Ervin Mete is Arben Ahmetaj’s man. I don’t have any people. I worked in the Ministry of Finance with the same people I worked with even in 1992, plus those I found there. I haven’t hired anyone new in the ministry.

Peka: I'm a bit intrigued by this media issue. Are you saying that Belinda Balluku is now the editor-in-chief of TCH? Is it no longer Veliaj?

Ahmetaj: They removed Veliaj because unity within the party has strengthened significantly. I had conflicts with Erion Braçe over fiscal matters; he thought one way, and I thought another. We had debates, sometimes he won, sometimes I did. How can they not address this? Look at what happened. There is no incinerator. Let me ask a question to Erion Braçe. Please, I do not wand an answer from you, as I don't want to get into an argument with you. So, knowing a person is a responsibility. How many people have Erion Braçe, Fatmir Xhafaj, Edi Rama known, that have wanted to send me to hell? So, my acquaintance with Mirel Mërtiri… it doesn’t matter who did the procedures, who stole, whether there is an incinerator or not, where the money is… the 5Ds, the IPARD, AKSHI, or the tunnel. Or should we accuse this one, because he knew a person? This is SP. No, it’s not. The PS is Erion Braçe, Fatmir Xhafaj, it’s Ben Pëllumbi who didn’t have the guts. It’s Majko, with all his good and some bad qualities. There are dignified people who remain silent. Why don’t they speak?

Peka: They are dignified...

Ahmetaj: Why don’t they talk?

Peka: There's not anyone with dignity there.

Ahmetaj: Please.

Peka: You are being investigated for having a friend, while the one with dignity has a convicted brother and hides it.

Ahmetaj: Don’t confuse things. Names like these may not have liked me, but I know that the day will come when they will speak. One day, one of these names will get to read the file. Erion Braçe might say he hates this man because of his position, especially regarding agricultural subsidies, but let him read the full file. He will be appalled. Fatmir Xhafaj may have read it and was appalled. He might say something briefly in parliament, giving a message for SPAK to take note. Why doesn’t SPAK deal with these matters? Even Eriola’s consultancy work, which is outside Albania and has nothing to do with incinerators or public investments, or with me, is called fictitious and launders money. Why, boy, do you call every aspect of my life fictitious and money laundering? The sale of my family’s and Albina’s property is considered money laundering. I know what you’re doing. Investigating 2004, what does that have to do with 2004? And what does he do? When I redo the declaration after the divorce, it’s a false declaration because he wasn’t there. I declared it in 2004, and in 2009 I declared it again; it’s the division of property with my ex-wife. How come you either don’t read them, or your affection for the boss has clouded your judgment? This is my personal advice: be careful with the love for the boss.

Peka: You speak from personal experience...

Ahmetaj: Ambushes are expected. Secondly, don't break the law out of loyalty to your boss. Show your loyalty by strictly enforcing the law. Do not take things personally with anyone, not even with that doctor you refer to as garbage when he appears in court. There’s a doctor whom he wants to keep inside, he wants to keep everyone inside. And when he comes to court, Altin Dumani says, "this garbage came." People there have heard it. There are new surprises; we have arrested the former deputy prime minister for the incinerators case. I repeat, the incinerators case, do you read the file, or does Millonaj do it for you with the half wards, along with Ulsi's Besmir? Let me bring up another fact: the Beleri case. In my youth, Beleri was a man who violated the integrity of Albania. Okay. That's right, once upon a time. I believe you know the rumors.

Peka: It's not just rumors; I know the whole story. Back in 1994, the SP held a protest to protect him. The late Luan Hajdaraga even apologized publicly. I'll never forget that he led a protest in defense of Beleri at that time. This SP conversation interests me greatly.

Ahmetaj: In what part of the world does occur what happened to Beleri? Today the prime minister threatens him, and tomorrow he is arrested. Secondly, in which justice system happens what happened with the decision of a judge who questioned the legitimacy of the evidence? I have the decision in the box. And SPAK has hidden it. This is justice? But what happens in Albania? Would this be allowed in America, and what would they do to the prosecutor there? Would this be allowed in France, and what would they do to the prosecutor? Would this be allowed in Germany, and what would they do to the prosecutor? Would this be allowed in Italy, and what would they do to the prosecutor? Why did nothing happen to the so-called hero of our children in Albania? What is the reason?

Peka: What is the reason?

Ahmetaj: The reason is that justice has been compromised. The media doesn't speak out because it's controlled. Attack Ben Ahmetaj. They accepted it themselves. TCH, a beloved television network owned by a dear friend of mine, I'm sorry to say, is being used against me by the prime minister’s orders for reasons we'll discuss in the third interview, with dates, names, and people. They've sold TCH's dignity for what?

Peka: The third interview will be far in the future...

Ahmetaj: No, it won't be far. We will move faster because we can go to hell, since I was considered a "pig" and a task force should be made to hunt pigs, A pig without a homeland. They would have attacked the flag if they attack this one. It’s typical of an autocrat, not a modern one. There are modern autocrats who don't understand, but this is a completely outdated autocrat.

Peka: We are back with Arben Ahmetaj, former deputy prime minister, for what is shaping up to be a highly accusatory interview. According to him, we have a concrete analysis and facts about corruption related to billion-dollar tenders, with specific names and direct accusations against the family of Prime Minister Edi Rama. Following this interview, Edi Rama will, at least in the media and public opinion, be the person most implicated by his former close associate in the massive corruption of this government.

Ahmetaj: I am personally shocked when such startling facts emerge. When I review the statistics and analyze the coup and his statements today, I agree with Altin Dumani, who says that in every case I handle, I end up confronting Edi Rama. Because, let me tell you, he also decides the colors of the towers, he has control over everything. The prime minister is correct; there is definitely corruption in tenders. What is he asking the cabinet members for? To find out what Ben Ahmetaj has done. What have I done? As Minister of Finance, I reduced the debt and the deficit, and I went to the international market. The Minister of Finance does not allocate money to private individuals; the minister allocates money to ministries, which then distribute it through various tenders. Why turn this entire situation into a narrative of making Ben Ahmetaj the scapegoat? Why? It was deliberate. You had a goal from day one, after 2021.

Peka: And you had the intention not to hinder him?

Ahmetaj: And you had the intention not to hinder him. I was, as one might say, the nerd. I admit I was the nerd.

Peka: You did not realize that the two ships that came to Vlora were pure corruption.

Ahmetaj: The two ships that came to Vlora, I'm sorry, but Altin Dumani is more concerned with Eriola's bathroom tiles or the $80,000 spent daily. Since he is seen as the hero of our children… What role do these energy aggregates play in Vlora? What is the contract, what is it paid for, what asset is it, who does it belong to, and for what function does 80,000 euros per day go, or even 1000 euros per day? What is the public benefit? Is there an energy crisis? No, there is not.

Peka: When he got it, he claimed he had...

Ahmetaj: Why did you abandon the other option with the Turks and choose this more expensive one? Why wasn't it stopped when the energy crisis ended? Why wasn't it used even for a single day, and what are the costs and benefits? What debate took place between the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Infrastructure regarding this investment?

Peka: What debate took place?

Ahmetaj: There was a debate about its lack of profitability. Why is it not being investigated? We cannot investigate because Edi Rama is involved.

Peka: Who intervened to cause the Ministry of Finance to lose this debate at that time?

Ahmetaj: Honestly, I don't know, as I was focused on my work and wasn’t involved in that matter. But I do know that there was a debate, and the former finance minister was part of it. I suggested he look at the deficit and the budget. However, it doesn’t matter much to me, though it might matter to you, in respect of what you say and ask.

What are the reasons that in the four examples I brought up, no tender is investigated, but a person who didn't handle any tenders is investigated? 10 billion, 6 billion, 3 billion, zero. What kind of justice targets zero but ignores billions? It is definitely directed. They target him, Top Channel, Top News, Endrit Habilaj, and Carlo Bollino, who take endless tenders from AKSHI, endless properties, and money from incinerators, and spew bile against me. It's absurd to the point of making you want to vomit. It was written that I live in a luxurious antique house. But if I tell you, Çimi, the house is modest, normal… There is neither an elevator, air conditioning, nor parking. Let them verify it; they know where I live. So much for living in a luxury house.

Peka: They know where you live. Whenever Altin Dumani has informal meetings with journalists, he says that he is looking for you. A few days ago, Taulant Balla was in Switzerland discussing extraditions. Does Arben Ahmetaj feel threatened that Rama and Dumani will do their best to bring you back?

Ahmetaj: Of course, they will do their best to bring me back, but it doesn't matter. I will return to Albania. And you know when I'll be back.

Peka: When...

Ahmetaj: When I finally secure residence in Switzerland, I will face everyone one by one. Do you think I fear extradition? I have moved past the moment of fear. I have other goals in life now. You’ve read what Freud says about the main motive of human life, haven’t you? It’s legacy. The name Edi Rama gave me, I will pass on to my children. I will not leave my children an unjustly tarnished legacy. No, my goal is something else in life. My purpose has transcended fear.

Peka: When Edi Rama used to send us to court, always for accusations of defamation and then withdrew because he couldn't prove his claim, he said, "I'm doing it for Zaho. When Zaho grows up, I don't want him to think like that."

Ahmetaj: He gave the casino licenses for Zaho?

Peka: Maybe...

Ahmetaj: Leave Zaho out of this. He's a child, I wish him a long and healthy life. We are not becoming like them. They investigated Kejlis. 430 names were mentioned. Livia, Kejlis, Flamur Hoxha, Eriola's father, Eljona, useless names. I have no business with anyone's children. Where there is a conflict of interest, where corruption has taken place, as in the two cases at AKSHI and EcoPark, it is another matter. I don't pass the door of anyone's house, but whoever passes the door of my house, I will use all possible legal instruments to get back at him.

Peka: Do you even think that you are doing this now?

Ahmetaj: Yes, I am doing this. Every day of my life is hard. Congratulations to Edi Rama and Altin Dumani; they have made my life hell. Well done, you have succeeded in making my life a living hell. You have unfairly reduced my entire life to nothing. With my education in America, my doctorate, my work in the Ministry of Finance, in the private sector, in reconstruction, and as deputy prime minister, well done, you have wiped it all out. Boy, you've got a warrant out for my arrest, and it's a career statistic for you. How did you say it? "I have a personal beef." You have a personal beef with me, well done. My life is hard, very hard. So, I say to my enemies, I would rather wish you a toothache, as Ibsen says, than to be in my situation. And to my friends, who have said crap to SPAK. They said that Ben Ahmetaj has introduced them with Klodian Zoto, which is not true. He was not my clasmate, nor did I give him licenses, but it doesn't matter.

Peka: Your friends have given false testimony to SPAK?

Ahmetaj: 100%. It's not worth it. I understand their problem; I don't want to see them. Neither Endrit Habilaj nor Adriatik Doçi. I'd rather them have a toothache than be in my current situation. These people have been instrumentalized by Top Channel against me. But whoever entered my house cannot have the right to leave as they entered.

Peka: Can you tell me why there is so much hostility from Top Channel towards you? When I say TCH, I mean the media most controlled by Edi Rama.

Ahmetaj: There is no enmity between Vjollca and me, nor with her daughter who runs it. They are just two people doing their jobs. On one hand, there is the influence of incinerators with money, and on the other, political control by Rama. This is publicly known. I have recorded the person who says that Belinda Balluku handles the editorials. Erion Veliaj is rarely involved anymore. TCH, once an aspiration for media freedom in Albania, has turned into an instrument of the prime minister. Why? What are they afraid of, fear of finances, money laundering, or ownership? They have nothing to fear from these. Zero. It is the sweat of their late father.

Peka: If all that you say holds true about the incinerator payments...

Ahmetaj: How are they holding up? Haven't you seen them?

Peka: Why do you say that they should be afraid? From what they have done?

Ahmetaj: We are talking about TCH as an enterprise. It was influenced by the money from the incinerators, which have now come to light with facts and political orientation. Meanwhile, I raise the question again: Why is it not being investigated? Where is the 80 million dollars? Where is the Tirana incinerator? What happened with the municipality of Tirana in other affairs? Where is the money going to the 'Tigers'? What happened to AKSHI? What is happening with EcoPark, and why did Bechetti win? What happened to the tunnel? There are countless issues. I know what I expect. I expect a new war, where they will invent some ridiculous issue like 'Buka'. How is it possible that the prosecutor takes the phone, returns it after seeing appalling things, and has no responsibility? How is that possible? In what normal justice system does this happen? How is it possible that the prosecutor of the "Buka SHA" case did not consult the national council of accountants and request an expertise from 10 independent experts, similar to what was done by independent experts in 2014-2015? How is it possible? It is purposefully directed by someone seeking approval from their boss. Let's talk about increasing money laundering, corruption, and abuse of office.

Peka: For an inattentive viewer or someone listening to this interview for the first time, the government's number two, perhaps the most influential person...

Ahmetaj: You are wrong. The most influential person is the one who spends the money. The most influential people are the Minister of Infrastructure and Energy, the Mayor of Tirana, the Minister of Health, and the Minister of Agriculture. These are the people with influence. The Minister of Finance has no influence. He says, "Hey, Albania's back can't hold more than 10 lek. Now, Prime Minister, here are the 10 lek. You have the person with the vision for Albania, and these are the people who implement your vision. I am the guardian of the country's financial stability. To ensure the country's financial stability, I cannot allocate more than 10 lek. Who gets the 10 lek? These are the people with influence. Don't confuse things, having a lot of information doesn't mean having influence."

Peka: With reliable information?

Ahmetaj: Let the people who listen to him judge for themselves.

Peka: Then, let’s consider a young foreign viewer listening to this interview with the former deputy prime minister, the man who knows the financial backbone of Albania. According to your analysis, public money has been heavily abused over the past 11-12 years, and you have been part of this political structure. Yet, you continue to say that you are proud of the SP. Do you understand how difficult is when this party's legacy are these last 11 years? What more damage can you do to Albania while you attack Rama and express pride for the SP?

Ahmetaj: Mr. Peka, through your legitimate question, you are also running an opposition campaign, though I’m not suggesting it’s electoral.

Peka: I am making an observation.

Ahmetaj: The statement has both legitimate journalistic and political implications. I will respond. Initially, I referenced the statistics and said I respect the presumption of innocence. I mentioned Dumani, how can he deal with someone who has done nothing, with such admiration for Kim Jong-un...

Peka: Even Dumani is your product. You said it yourself; he was applauded. I consider him a minister.

Ahmetaj: Unfortunately, yes. But when we started, our intention was for him to be independent.

Peka: Who made him dependent, me? It was this majority.

Ahmetaj: I am a victim of his abuse of power and his political dependence. Don’t hold me accountable for this. 

Peka: I’m not holding you accountable for why you're in this situation, but when you say you're proud of the SP, what pride are you referring to?

Ahmetaj: I am, but this is not the SP I am proud of.

Peka: Which  is...

Ahmetaj: One moment, Çimi, please. Should the entire German people be held responsible for Hitler's actions? No. We can't make the whole world guilty because of one man. Should we make the entire SP responsible for a moment? No.

Peka: I’m not talking about the ordinary members or the 900,000 patronage workers. I’m referring to the main political figures.

Ahmetaj: You can’t change me...

Peka: I don’t want to change you...

Ahmetaj: You asked me. You cannot change my pride in the SP. I have given and received dignity from the SP, along with work and responsibility. I have contributed my own. Many may not like me, many may like me, many are afraid to speak, many are afraid to talk to me, many are afraid to tell the truth, and many are too lazy to read the file or are afraid to read it. The spirit within the SP is there, but is poisoned. One day that spirit will be revived, and my story, or Edi Rama’s story in relation to the SP over these 11 years, will be of little importance. Everyone will be remembered for their own deeds. One will be remembered for the venom, the other for the naivety of being direct.

Peka: You speak with such passion, saying the soul is there and will one day be revived. It’s not just about me and Rama. To speak so passionately about Albania rather than about the party, you know how dignified you would be. You can talk about Albania with such passion, but for which soul are you speaking? For those who come and meet the prime minister, the criminal gangs?

Ahmetaj: I spoke about the Socialist Party.

Peka: The party includes the prime minister, the parliamentary group, and the structures that are unable to discuss these issues. What are they doing to you?

Ahmetaj: The spirit is there, but today it is overshadowed by jokes and the production of pears, peaches, and plums by one man. Intrigue dominates, media capture is controlled by one man. One man's grip on justice prevails, and he has succeeded. Kudos to him for channeling all the passion of everyone I mentioned, including my own, to achieve what he has. Well done to him for dividing and selling Albania, giving away islands, peninsulas, and more. I believe you’ve read the latest State Department report. It is very candid with its citizens because it is a report for them. It mentioned that Rama’s people took strategic investments. It talked about justice and mentioned that it was compromised. Did it not? And the DASH report for American citizens?

Peka: What does it say to Albanian citizens? That they are fortunate to have him as prime minister?

Ahmetaj: I would say that the USA is the only guarantee for restoring justice reform to its rightful path, ensuring the rule of law, independence, and respect for human rights. They are the only guarantee in this situation. Justice has fallen into the hands of a man who manipulates it. How is it possible for the media to be controlled in such a manner? Is it normal for everything to continue like this? Keep quiet, don't write about it. If you do, we will attack you. You've seen how the leader of KLSH have been treated. He dared to write with dignity and integrity in an institution that has potentially caused corrupt processes and damage to the state budget. They destroyed him. Why? Because they can’t afford to lose control. If you get out of our control, we will crush you, and find something, some vice. Communism was even more sophisticated; in the 70s and 80s, it began to eliminate these things. I know how justice is today, it's no longer like it was in 1993. Justice in Albania resembles that of 1946, when Gjergj Kokoshi, who was disliked by the communists for being a liberal democrat, was executed. It wasn’t like 1993 with Prel Martini, and Prel did justice at least in only one out of ten cases.

Peka: That’s exactly what I’m saying. The ability of this political formation that you are proud of to repeat itself is more than impressive.

Ahmetaj: He’s confusing things on purpose.

Peka: Even its victims exhibit the same behavior.

Ahmetaj: Leave it; it’s pointless.

Peka: What am I confusing?

Ahmetaj: You haven’t studied psychology.

Peka: You referenced 1946 as an example; it seems to be a repetition of itself.

Ahmetaj: You’re not equipped to psychoanalyze me, and I’m not a simple character to be analyzed. I know I’m behaving like a victim, and I am a victim, but I’m not acting like one.

Peka: You are fighting.

Ahmetaj: The victim lies on the ground and begs for mercy from Kim Jong. I don’t want any help from Kim Jong, zero. I will face the end of my life on my own. Woe to those who have unlawfully entered my home. I will not leave any legal avenue unexplored; I will fight until the last hour of my life. I do it for my truth, my family, those I’ve hurt, my children, and my friends. Those who have crossed the threshold of my home know this well. They will face the consequences. And let those who are paid by the incinerators, those vile individuals, enter into action.

Peka: Even with what you’ve done today, you’ve made quite an impact. My final question is the same as at the beginning of the show and will continue to be: What do you expect after this interview?

Ahmetaj: After the interview in February, I told you I was expecting everything. They treated my family like a Jewish family in Poland during the Nazi occupation of 1939-40. They accused my ex-wife and current wife of money laundering. They said to me, We can send you to hell, and leave your children as orphans, and put to prison your wife and ex-wife if you speak. I’m speaking out, and I’ve made my mind. There’s a man in Italy, speaking a northern dialect with an Italian number, and a Romanian name. He’s from Shkodra and has connections with SPAK. We will uncover and detail this connection, with first and last names, in the third interview. The way he has acted is like a political policeman. I don’t owe anybody anything. I only owe it to justice to be treated with the presumption of innocence, with dignity as a former state employee, and not to be treated according to the wishes of Kim Jong, the joker of the hood, with the pears, apples and peaches. The producer and the consumer. What am I waiting for? I’m waiting for the attacks on my life. I’ve made up my mind. People have approached my friends with threats. It doesn’t work. It won’t deter me. I will see this through to the end. Edi Rama continues to mock, turning it into a joke. To say they complain as if it’s the fault of the Socialist Party, don't equate yourself with the SP, the flag, or the homeland. Keep calling me a man without a motherland, a pig, and keep hoping that I go to hell. Continue organizing what you tried to do in Albania, keep telling Top Channel to target me, and keep asking Carlo Bollino and Altin Dumani to invent more accusations. I am expecting it all.

Peka: You will continue as you said, until the end. I will continue to follow up, pestering you until the end, and talking whenever you're willing. Thank you very much for this second interview.

Ahmetaj: Thank you.

Peka: This was the second interview with Arben Ahmetaj, former deputy prime minister. As he mentioned, he kept the promise from the first interview that we would meet again. He has announced a third interview, which I insist on having as soon as possible. Good night, everyone!